Yes ok, I saw a pig and it was pink fly past my window last night - nice thought though - Duncan Smith should try living here in the Winter !!
Well thats excellent news - how do we go about it ?? Do you have the telephone number - please - and thank you for bringing this to our attention xx
Wonderful - Thank you Myra - although I tried ringing that number today for a friend and after pressing many options they were busy with other people please call later - but Ive written down what youve said xx thank you so much
I get so ANGRY about the continual remarks about winter fuel allowance. Those of us who have it, earned it and we need it. We could also use Summer cooling allowance, but I don't think that's a goer xxx
I have looked the link and will fill the forms out and post them asap.
Fingers crossed we can all finally get what should have been ours all along, those who think we are always hot have never experienced some of our winters.
Just hearing on the radio, Ian Duncan Smith is requesting a "temperature test" for these winter payments. So you oldies will have to wait just that little longer as the UK government keep coming up with comical ideas to stop these payments happening.
Myra, you didn't upset me I don't see why people like my siser in law who worked all her life and came here 1 year before retirement didn't get it, now she will. It's people in UK who constantly complain about us getting it that drives me mad. Good for you for spotting it and good luck to those who can now claim xx
Hi Myra I have just called them and the woman said I can claim for 2013 but not past Winters, the claim should have been in by March this year. I was of pensionable age in 2008 and lived here since 2004 - is she telling me porky pies. Yes love to be your friend xxx
I find it strange,that nothing appeared on this forum regarding the WFA,although the European Court,instructed the U.K. that almost
everybody over the age of 60 from the U.K. was entitled to a payment.
It wasnt until idiots like Ian Duncan Smith started thinking of ways to get round the ruling,and was eagerly joined by those O So Honest Media people,that it receivred any publicity.
A few things to remember is that if you are claiming for the coming winters payment you have until March 2013 to apply.
If your Spouse is receiving a payment already,and you apply and receive the payment,you will NOT get 200 pounds,you will receive 100 pounds and your Spouse will lose 100 pounds of their payment*the payment is 200 pounds per household Not per person. for those over 80 years of age the amount is 300 pounds.
It is expected that the U.k, will appeal this decision,but if so The European Court is not expected to deliberate until later next year,So the payment for winter 2012/2013 is practically guaranteed,if you apply for it and you are entitled to it
Having spent many years in this part of Spain and experienced the rather cool and damp winters we had double glazing, central heating, insulation and solar panels put in when we had our home built in 1985 and now don't feel justified in applying for a fuel subsidy when people in Southern England really do need the help.
Well done L Schneiter,it is good to know that you have all the things in your house to make it warm and comfortable for you in the winter.
But if you have any great knowledge of the U.K.you would know that IDS was a failure as a Tory leader many years ago,and hasnt done much since then,also thr British Press is a well known joke,when it comes to being fair to Ex Pats,You must therefore know that no one living in the U.K. will lose their WFA.
The money given is not a charitable donation given to you,It is a right for you to receive it.If you dont want or need it.Why not take what is rightfully yours and donate to one of many Charities either here or in the U.K.to help make someones life just a little more tolerable,many people in many Countrieswill never be as lucky as you
There is a reason why houses were cheap here - most people just never bother to ask why - in the UK people spent money they didn't have to insulate their home and the fuel subsidy is not a comfort thing it is a matter of life and death
Thank you for the advice Alan. We are not well off, we simply planned our retirement wisely. While it is true that homes in Spain are not particularly warm on this coast in winter, the temperature raely goes below zero and we survived here in our first uninsulated house by dressing up warmly and making sure that we made use of whatever sun light to warm the house.
I am not happy with the coaltition's policies but I didn't vote them in - whereas most people here did vote them in or didn't bother to vote at all which is worse :-(
All anyone wants is what is rightfully theirs, something we have all paid for over the years working. If there is any criteria at all why then if you were claiming it before you came to Spain are you still entitled to claim it - so its got nothing to do with heat or cold has it - its pure politics
You actually thought you managed to buy a cheap house because it wasnt insulated - how silly is that
I think you are somewhat adrift of what i wrote.
I stated that Ian Duncan Smith,is not the best person to listen to,and neither are the british Press.
i further said that no person over the age of 60 would lose the WFA,whilst others in the U.K. are receiving it.As for the houses being cheap here,only in comparison to extortionate prices in some parts of the U.K.and it is not because of insulation,but more to the point of close and reliable public transport,Good schools,hospitals.Employment,amount of area that can be used for housingand other facilities,
In Spain it is not often you can get these facilities close to where you live.
But as I also pointed out,it is now your right as a person over 60 to receive the WFA,so if you dont collect it the British government will spend it on something you may totally disagree with,or why not collect what is yours and give it to somebody or something that you believe is worthy of it.
As a last thought,When they talk about the temperature ,they mean outside in the open,and not inside in an insulated house.
My experience of Spain is of excellent cheap and reliable public transport, excellent schools and a superb health service however I still maintain that many people seem to come here without weighing up the pros and cons and planning and preparing their move. They rarely learn the language or integrate, all of which would make their stay here much more comfortable becasue they would learn many of the tricks local people use to live with the climate.
Wow.... How can anyone be mad about receiving this money. If you are entitled to it, wether you need or not then go get it.
The fact is by the te I reach all your ages or pensionable age there will be nothing for us... AT ALL. Even paying in to a private pension which I did for 7 years working for one company, by time I'm able to get to that it will be worth nothing let alone get me the basic essentials.
So if your entitled to it go get it, wether you need it or not. Just have a thought for your grand children who by time they reach pensionable age will have Jack all.
Just to put the record straight L Schneister,I said the price of houses in the U.K had nothing to do with insulation,but to the various things I mentioned being close to the house you purchase,I did not say that the U.K had great thinga all over,but the houses that have these things close to them will sell at a large premium.
The rest of your comment regarding not speaking spanish or planning in advance of your move does not make one iota od a difference.The money being given as a WFA payment,is the entitlement of all Brits over the age of 60,If you had a lottery ticket and won 200 pound,would you tell the lottery people,I dont want it,so you had better keep it,( I dont think so) you would take the money as it is yours,then you do what you want with it spend it or give it.This is the same position that you are in.The only difference being that the British Government aim to keep the money they illegally kept from some people for years prior to this European Cort decision.
well said Alan. That man is very lucky he was able to build his house and get it as he wanted. We didn't meet till we were both well into our 60's and I knew that if we wanted a life in the sun we had to act quickly. We have a very beautiful house, not big but our heating and cooling is by aircon, not cheap. People forget that those of us who were working in the 60's in UK were paying a lot in tax and N I we're only getting what we paid for. I love it here but our bills aren't small. I just resent people who say we shouldn't get WHA. Lord, don't get me going again, this really is the bee in my bonnet. xx
Yes, you are quite right,As I read it it will start from winter 2012/2013.But the fact that the British Government broke a European Law,which stated that one benefit you are entitled to ,will carry on if you move to another Country in the European Community,In fact the British Government did the same thing with the Disability Living Allowance,which they illegally stopped the minute a claimant moved from the UK. to a country in theEuropean Union.Again the European Court found against the British Government,who in the end gave back pay of I believe three years six months to those involved.
as for IDS, I think he is the worst Prime Minister Britain never had,as for p'ushing through a new law,I wouldnt trust him to push a wheel barrow.But thatv is only a personal opinion
Why would you want to claim a winter fuel allowance when you live in Spain and its warm???
Because you have paid into the system and think its your right, I think anyone that would try to claim it are just greedy.
Sally. we're in La Marina. You're wellcome to visit our house in winter and tell me it's warm. We have a north facing house and in winter it's frequently warmer outside than in the house. I wouldn't return to UK but I promise you it get's extremely cold in here. A lot of our neighbours use calor gas heaters. I have emphysema so we can't use them and our bills are big even though we try to economise.
Yes I know that the temp can drop but its nothing compared to what others have to put up with
I am very sorry Myra I did not know that it was not allowed to post things that you did not like, You must be one of the people that take what ever you can even if you do not need it.
Sally & Mazza.
Sally you are correct in what you say that Spain is warm, during the winter though some parts of Spain fall well below minus.
Mazza you state you live in La Marina, wether your entitled to the winter payment or not if you are then collect it of not then don't collect it. Just for some info, the temperature in La marina has not dropped below 8 degrees At night for a few good years here so to be perfectly honest yes it gets cold but it's only for two maybe three months of the year.
I was doing abit of re search it seems all peoPle receiving se kind of benifit receive a payment if the temperature drops below freezing for a day or how ever it long that lasts. Wether your 21 or 65 it seems if your a "council tenant" then you recieve a payment of it gets cold.
To me that's a liberty. Go give the people who are homeless that money an put them up in a hostel or something.
What facts do you need to know, is it or is it not warm in Spain???? Thats why we all come over here. So why do you have to go begging with cap in hand to the U.K for money for heating
Do you think that when the government came up with the idea of money to help the old in winter they said OH yes and we must also think of all of those people living in the sun Of course they did not. ITS FOR THOSE THAT ARE COLD
See there you go Sally Myra has the correct info. Like it has been said if your entitled to it then take it and be happy.
All Myra is tryIng to do is give some kind of advice and letting people know. The benifit system came into use after the war to help those in need and as the years have passed on things have been added to it. Wether people like it or not, of Mazza , Alan , and who ever else are untitled to this payment then good for them.
There is a old boy by thecne of Fred on this Urb. Haven't seen him in months. He took part in the D - Day landings back in the day, je gave his everything for his country (UK) and I remember now that I stopped him outside the ferritieria (soterins) and he was tellinge about his broken tap and that if it wasn't for his winter allowance payment he would not of been able to of got the parts he needed or his tap as they were expensive and the allowance helped him cover the cost.
Going off the point really but the fact is he gets it and it helped him whe he needed it.
I think everyone should be glad of myras advice. It's free and she actually deals wit tw DWP.
I'm inclined to agree with you Sally. Just because one is entitled to something doesn't mean one should demand it. That is probably the argument a lot of very well off tax avoiders use to justify not paying their fair share. We are privileged to live in this temperate part of Spain and the upshot of asking for this subsidy to be extended to pensioners outside the UK is that elderly people in the South of England may be deprived of what might represent a matter of life and death to them not just the little indulgence it means to us. A lot of Spanish people manage perfectly well without airconditioning or central heating. These are luxuries not necessities!
Why do you have a fixation on the South of England. It does get cold all over England. Not just the south.
Because pensioners living in the South of England were said to be in danger of losing their WFP - many of my elderly relatives and friends live around there, they are people of modest means; they are elderly and frail and many rely on the WFP not as an entitlement but to survive winters that are far harsher than we are likely to suffer.
I think everyone should decide for themselves if they should take these payments, the guy who was fighting at D-Day needs more than he gets and if others that do not need did not take it there would be more for him, but no, its MINE so I am having it, not to buy heating but maybe a few more beers or a meal because its not cold.
Andi, we're actually in Oasis and we're the end of the development, and it's colder than in town. I know it's warmer than UK but due to my health problems I have to keep warm. I'm not asking anyone for anything just stating that we have large bills and now were both in our 70's we're only getting what we contributed to. I'll now leave this subject alone.
I dare say that you are entitled to have your appendix removed but does that mean that you ought to insist on having the operation!!! Insisting on having my pound of flesh/fuel allowance will cost a lot of money to put through the system, money the country can ill afford in these lean times.
that really made me laugh, was it meant as sarcasm or just tongue in cheek, anyway, what's wrong with buying beers? x
If your entitled to it then have it. There no law broken theres no short cuts if it's ment for people over a certain age then so be it.
Winters are getting colder and more extreme back in the UK.
Like Mazza said you either need the heater to warm up or air con to cool down and the way the taxes keep going up here on electric that allowance will help people.
Hence anyone who has had the air con on over the August and recieved the electric bill today will know that that kinda allowance helps pensioners.
If ours was €154 then an tw aircon was only on for a few hours a day I'm sure there's many people who are pensioners who will have higher electric bills and that kind of payment will help them.
I always advise people to spend a year in Spain preferably in the area in which they intend to settle before committing hard earned money to a property. That way they know what kind of weather they can expect and how they can make provision to cope with the heat and damp cold. Most people think that living in Spain is cheap - cheaper than living in the UK - but it is only cheap if you plan carefully.
Exactly Myra! Then why insist on cashing in on an allowance just because you can and not because you need it?!!! I guess this is an example of the dependency culture made much of in papers like the Daily Mail
I have heard it all, "If your entitled to it then have it" thats right and sod the next man that needs it. I am sure if you had a plate of food and you were sitting next to a starving child you would stuff it in to your face because it was yours
I bet you wish you hadnt bothered Myra - I thank you anyway for pointing this out, and have filled my form out already ready for posting Monday...
I agree Myra and I appreciate that you were simply trying to be helpful. At no point was I questioning your motives or your urge to inform people of their rights, I just wish that people would balance their rights with their responsibilities.
Sorry to get polital again.
The British Government joined the European Community and agreed to a set of rules
One of the rules,was that if you moved from one European Country to another you would still be entitled to any benefits that you receive from your former Country of Residence.It is not a gift it is Law,The British Government broke the European Law.they were taken to the European Court and were found guilty.So they are left with no option but to abide by the Law,just as any ordinary person would be,or be punished for it if they dont.
If you do not want to claim what is rightfully yours they will not force it on you.But to my mind if you think that by not claiming it you are helping the needy in Britain to have a share of it ,you are surely living in cloud cuckoo land,that money could be used to support things that the British Government support, but most of us abhor.
Surely if you feel guilty about receiving money that is Legally yours,you could donate it to a worthwhile cause ,where your gift would be appreciated by someone or something you believe in.
But to complain that people who do not need it should not get it is absolutely ridiculous,and to even think that people in parts of Britain will have the payment stopped because the temperature is milder than other parrts is even sillier.
The people in very cold parts of the U.K. are entitled to a further benefit if that area reaches only a certain temperature over a certain amount of days,which Myra has explained in one of her comments earlier.
I have no love for the present British government or indeed the government before and I also agree with your argument that the UK government should abide by the rules it subcribed to when it joined the EU. I am also sceptical enough to believe that if the UK government had not found one way to deprive the vulnerable and needy of the support they need they would have found another but that this EU ruling has been heaven sent so that they can shrug their shoulders and shift the blame. Nor do I have any problem with Myra having informed people of their rights - that was after all part of her remit in her soon-to-be-former job and this is afterall partly a forum where we can provide each other with support. My concern is with the attitude that many people seem to have, that rights must be exercised with no thought for others - your suggestion that people ought to take what they are entitled to and then it is up to them how they choose to use those entitlements is not in the spirit of the system of mutuality that was set up after the second world war which depends very much on a strong sense of civil responsibility and maturity. We ought not to do things or use things 'just because we can' - 'might is not always right' and we ought not to buy into the 'because I'm worh it' discourse.
I take it then that if you won the lottery you would cancel your UK pension having worked for it all your life - and give it to the needy, I dont think so.. or if you lived in the UK and were one of the rich and famous and had private medical cover you wouldnt use the NHS - your argument is just crazy
I really thought I had made my comment clear.
The British Government knowingly kept money that wasnt theirs,but belonged to other people.They tried their best not to pay it back.But having been found guilty of evading to pay money to pay who were legally the owners of that cash,they had no option,but to offer it back to its rightful owners,anything else would have incurred a heavy fine,as well as repaying the money.If this was Joe Public who acted in the same way ¡,he would of faced a heavy fine plus time in prison.Therefore as far as i am concerned they got off lightly,but i would be stuffed if I let them have more of money than what they had already stolen.
Just an afterthought,I already receive my 200 pounds,so I havnt condoned their thieving
Souxie, that is the problem, people see social help as a form of lottery prize - it isn't - governments are not them and us, they are us, we vote them in and the social safety net is there for those who need it. With all the real hardship that is around us at the moment and in the UK all this sounds incredibly self indulgent.
Obviously L Schneiter we will never agree on this subject.My last words I hope on this subject is the WFA is to assist in paying the extra cost of heating your home in the winter months,so regardless of where you live,ifv it costs you more to heat your home in the winter months than it does the rest of the year,the extra payment is to help you do that.I personally spend more money heating my Villa in winter months,so that payment helps me to do so,So which ever way you look at it,that money is my entitlement,it is not a gift from 650 M.Ps who help control the purse strings of the British Government
We have already put our claim in, go to the dept of pensions site and follow links for winter fuel payment, fill in and send it off, and thank you very much for paying at At last what we are owed
I rang the pensions office and they told me to wait until 3 September to download the new application form, then fill it in and send it to International Pensions Centre. The form that is online now is incorrect apparently.
Eve I'm sorry you have grasped a cap and made it fit you! At no stage did I say that people who need the WFA should not have it, I simply asked the question - do people who live in this beautiful area where the temperature rarely goes below zero need a fuel allowance? Most immigrants who come out from the UK use the equity from a property back home to finance their resettlement, Having owned a home most UK immigrants have some notion of what it takes to make a dwelling comfortable - and yet the cost of heating and/or cooling their home here seems to come as a surprise and an impostition - I don't intend to justfy my financial situation but when we moved here we knew that if our home was to be comfortable in our old age and on a very modest income it would need to be easy and cheap to maintain, heat/cool, with no stairs and good communications, to name but a few considerations. We planned and prepared over a very long period of time and hope that this will ensure that, barring unforseen events, we will be able to enjoy our retirement and help other people less fortunate than ourselves - we don't need a WFA in our present circumstances and therefore will not be claiming it just because we can! What other people do is up to them and their own concience but it is worth posing the question if only to make a few people think ..........
Thanks Tommy I called them Friday and she told me to download the WFP3(EEA) which I have but not posted it as yet so will check on the 3rd -
Eve, I reiterate, I did not say that people who needed the fuel allowance shouldn't claim it, but my posts seem to have struck a note with you and put you on the defensive for which I am slightly bemused.
I am also intrigued by your implied interpretation of fairness when it comes to the social welfare system in the UK because it seems to indicate a mistaken understanding of how mutuality works. If everyone who put money into the social system insisted on getting out the same amount to the very penny - the system would collapse and to some extent it is in trouble precisely because of this misunderstanding of how the system works. It would mean that those who needed more than they contributed would have to be told - 'tough luck! You can't have any more because your meter has run dry.' Mutuality means that everyone contributes and the money is distributed according to need but this depends on people taking responsibility for their lives and recognising levels of need. I argue that our need here in this temperate region of Spain is, for the most part, not acute - (note that I am making allowance for special circumstances of need)
well said myra at least one person is not getting the w.f.a & extreme waether payment confused.
With the greatest respect Eve, you are confusing entitlement with need and that is the problem I have - the social system was supposed to be about providing for the vulnerable, it is not like a private pension scheme where one expects to get oback at least what one invested. Although that is not proving to be true given the poor return on private pension investment!! :-(
The state pension was always capped at a certain level - so that while it is true that you may have paid more if you earned more, the pension you received was never on the scale of return of a private pensionl.
As an aside and slightly off subject - my mother is 83 and feels the cold more than she used to so we got her an electric blanket and an electric lap blanket for when she sits in her sitting room in front of the TV - this has really improved her quality of life. Similarly, my mother-in-law always complained of sleeping poorly until we bought her an electric blanket one Christmas and after that she slept much better! We find that an electric blanket was really useful here becasue it is not so much that it is extremely cold, just that the cold we get here is damp - in our experience butano/bottled gas heaters were poor performers because they also seemed to draw in more humidity.
Actually I don't think Eve is confusing anything. Fact is the government have said these are the requirements if you meet them then you are entitled to apply for it. So it's not about entitled too or needing it. The government set out is guide lines. If you meet them thats that.
There are a lot of things that governments do that are questionable - that is why we have a brain and a conscience. People have used 'I only followed orders' and 'everyone else is doing it so why shouldn't I' arguments before that doesn't make them right.
Surely then if your Mother is 83 then she must have been claiming the allowance before she left the UK unless of course you landed here before she was 60 - as it was transferrable, but obviously as you thought she wouldnt need it you cancelled it...
Thanks for easily understood comment.
I have only one small thing to add and that is normally,entilement means you are entitled to it.
If you need something,you will have to prove to the relevent Dept. that you need it.It will more than likely mean you giving over to them a whole string of private information,for them to judge your request,including incoming cash,and how much you have in savings,plus other stuff.
to lie about anything information given is a criminal offence.
to claim WFA doesnt require any of this info.
Yup thanks Alan I think people are just mid understood a little. I certainly am when it comes down to this allowance thing. It will never affect me now or decades to come as tere will be no such allowance for my generation. I will read the thread with interest though
The WFA is an allocated payment to ALL pensioners. So how can the word NEED come into it. L Schneiter I think you are just being boring. Why should your mother, who is 83, and gets her fuel allowance in England, be any more worthy a cause than a pensioner in Spain. If you can convince me that she is then I will shut up. If the Government put the extra money for the fuel allowance onto people's Old Age Pension's then they could cut down on Civil Servants and we would not be having these arguments.
You have to be joking Eve!! My mother lives with UK winters - I was not saying that all pensioners in Spain shouldn't get the WPA or even that all people in this area should get it - I was just appealing to common sense, conscience, and personal responsibility. There is much that people here could do to insulate their homes and warm them more effeciently before they need to claim WFA
So the answer to all of your comments is because at the second oppurtunity you so cleverly insulated your home to the best of your abilities.You are still paying more for your winter heating,so therefore you are entitled to apply for the WFA,you in particular dont wish to bother,because you feel you dont need it,Then why not apply and send the money to your mother to help her have an even warmer winter.
I am getting a tad fed up with your holier than thou attitude.
It is always a sign that a discussion has lost its way when instead of arguing the points the contributers start attacking the person instead of addressing the issues.....
I rest my case! Boring, Holier than thou and a politician!!! - looks as though I can safely say that I hold the high ground :-)
L Schneider you were not only discussion the issue (WFA) but also the failure of people to learn spanish and to integrate,your oh so clever idea of insulating,and many other off the discussion issues,I stood you for long enough,and decided enough was enough.I apologise to all the other readers,for my little outburst,especially as it was caused by someone who doesnt understand what simple words like entitlement mean,and refuse to acknowledge it
The subject of WFA for pensioners here is complex and is connected with the sense of entitlement that has been demonstrated here - it also linked to the lack of personal responsibility and the dependency culture that has also be clearly demonstrated in this discussion - that was very hard for me to accept because I have always hated the thatcher and daily mail type accusations of dependency culture when used to attack the weak and vulnerable. You were not obliged to 'stand me' Alan, this forum is open to all and also has log out option - there are no excuses for outbursts that attack other contributers rather than their arguments.
No L Schneider,WFA is definitely not complex,it is so simple,unfortunately you refuse to accept that it is an entitlement granted to all G.B. Pensioners,Dependent on where they live(of that their is no doubt,and as proven so by the findings of the European Court,also proven by the British Government who are about to pay money that they withheld for many years to some people who were entitled to it)
You refuse to accept these findings,and are going out of your way,to try and insult some people who read this forum,by trying to make them feel guilty because they will apply and get money illegally withheld from them by the British Government.
Of course it may well be that you have not reached the age in which you can claim the WFA and you feel aggrieved at that,I dont know,but undoubtably you will give me an answer.
As for me insulting you.(which i gather you would never do)What part of "lack of personal responsibility and the dependeny culture that has also be clearly demonstrated in this discussion"isnt insulting
Well said Alan La Marina - I think he should claim the WFA and send it to his Mum if he doesnt feel he is entitled to it. Then she could be really warm rather than buying her electric blankets which I have to say for an 83 year old is a tad dangerous, as my Spanish GP told me
And your Spanish GP bases his knowledge of electric blankets on what evidence? As far as I know - very few people here in Spain have much experience of electric blankets in comparison with UK GPs who do - my mother's doctor indicated no problem with my mother using one. The blankets in the UK have come a long way in sophistication and safety features, you can even put them in the washing machine.
I know I am entitled to the WFA but I don't choose to make use of my right to the payment because I don't need it and have no over developed sense of being 'owed'. If I should get into trouble financiallyor healthwise then I would not hesitate to avail myself of whatever social help available however I have enough sense of responsiblity and autonomy to do all in my power to stand on my own two feet.
Alan, I have not disputed the court findings and I am fully in favour of the a social safety net albeit ever more erroded and reduced by the last few governments. However I am also in favour of people doing all in their power to not need help. If I have insulted anyone reading this forum it will be because something I said struck a cord - you on the other hand, have chosen the path of logical fallacy sometimes known as abusive Ad hominem; an attempt to deviate an argument by attributing a negative characteristic or unrelated belief to the person supporting it. Very poor show! :-(
I wouldnt call it "owed"It is yours,if you dont want it,then dont take it,I just hope it doesnt get spent by the Government,who send millions of pounds to foreign countries,on the pretext that they are helping the poor and needy of that country,when in fact they are helping the despots who rule, to buy more ammunition to shoot helpless people.
If you are in the Spanish Health system, as a British ex-pat and pensioner you are already being helped to the tune of 3500pounds per year,if you have private health,you really are one of the old school,and for that i would congratulate you
Alan, I know that we are talking at cross purposes because you are using the definition of entitlement as: a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. Whereas I am using the casual sense of the term "entitlement" which is a notion or belief that one (or oneself) is deserving of some particular reward or benefit (a lottery win if you like) - my definition often has a pejorative connotation (e.g. a "sense of entitlement or being owed something").
You have again tried to divert the discussion, this time into the complex issue of overseas aid. To which I will only suggest that the despots tend to buy arms from the donor country - thus providing jobs in the arms industry - not moral but very good for British business.
L. Schneifer I have a friend living in La Marina who only has the basic pension to live on would you begrudge that person their fuel allowance. There are many people living in Spain on very low incomes. Some of them are here for health reasons, this is a better climate to live in, the fuel allowance they get helps them with other bills. Just because we are comfortable and can manage on our pensions it does not mean everyone can. I sincerely hope you are never in a position where you are in dire straits. Never is a long time. As for refusing my fuel allowance, no chance if I have any spare cash it goes to help the Charity I support with my time. Myra I don't expect you expected this amount of interest when you posted on this forum. I look forward to meeting you at the Charity shop when you come over.
Eve please point out where I said that people in need of the WFP should not get it! I have every sympathy for people who fall on hard times especially if it is not remotely of their own making and that is why a social safety net is a very good thing. Many of you have used the Robin Hood justification of taking from the state to help the needy - which sounds laudable - if we lived in the middle ages where there was no social system - no democracy - and most people lived as serfs under despotic regimes but this is not the case anymore. The State is us - and taking from the state under the excuse that you know better than the state is a poor justifcation and ultimately leads to anarchy. Order in a modern society hinges on reponsibility, consideration, good manners, cooperation and tolerance.
I have been following this line of argument from the first posting. It seems to me L. Schneiter that you want to play at being Robin Hood. I do not understand your reasoning. The Government will not give the unclaimed Winter Fuel Allowance to the needy, they may even claim more expenses for themselves from it. So tell me, by refusing fuel allowance what are you gaining by it. No one gives a dam whether you claim it or not so why are you doing so much shouting about it. But, if it makes you feel a martyr - carry on. When you meet your maker he will probably give you a pat on the back!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is not claiming a benefit playing Robin Hood Adam? Surely that is the argument of those who think they ought to take the money and then redistribute it! Your argument that if a benefit is unclaimed it is stolen by someone in the Government is a rather dodgy one and I suspect that Myra would find it rather insulting - where is your evidence? I give a damn! As for a Martyr : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle - well hardly!!!!!:-)
Well to carry on the thought of some that you should take what ever you can and sod the person that needs it, I will claim my fuel money, I do not need it as I have more money than I can spend, but its mine so why not "its my right remember" and with this extra money I will buy a few bottles of wine and have a drink with my wife next to the pool at my very big villa.
Perhaps we are at cross purposes.I am using the words used by the relevant Government Dept.which is the one who follow the Government rulings,which one are you using?
As for the insults part,you have proved me right you really do think you are holier than thou.
As for my comment as to where the money not claimed goes ,I even expected you to see that that was meant light heartedly,But in retrospect you thought that it wasnt such a bad idea as the despots would buy the bullets off of Great Britain and help British businesses,I would of taken it as a light hearted bit,but from you I will take it seriously.
Then you go on to say that when you insult someone,they are only insulted because they are guilty other wise the words wouldnt affect them.
I do not know many people as pompous as you appear to be,
L. Schneiter you are deliberately misinterpreting my comments. In no way did I insinuate that Myra would be guilty of taking funds from the pot. She is only doing her job, wherever she works. You seem to think that anybody who does not need the money should give it up to the needy, Robin Hood tactics. You must have a high opinion of yourself if you think you can tell people what to do. I go along with the comment "Pompous".
I often read but rarely comment on this Forum,But I felt I had to say that whoever L schneiter is,they are surely winding up people who read this Forum,I think they are one of those people who wind up others for no other reason than they get a kick out of angering people.if not the crap they speak is like a person who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing
Sigh! I do wish people would actually read what I say and reply to it and not what they want to believe I said! Adam you said that someone in the government was probably pocketing the money. Myra's bosses and line managers are subject to government audits so if you think the government is stealing the money you must have some theory of how this would happen. Do you think MPs just waltz in and take money??!!! Are you and George just popping in to stir the pot? If you have nothing to say to the subject under discussion then you really are just coming in to wind people up and throw in a little gratuitious abuse. Not exactly noble! I am not even sure how George equates taking part in a discussion with knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing - a bit of a Non sequitur I guess! :-)
Oh Dear L Schneitar. you state to Adam that people dont read what you say,you then go to a spiel about what Adam said,possibly you lost the plot,because i have looked and cannot see where Adam said anything like you claim.
You also had a go at george for using a well known phrase when referring to you.You like to look like you know everything but in fact you know nothing.
I dont know if you are a troll but at times even i am beginning to come to that way of thinkling .
sometimes attack is not the best form of defence
Just a final bit for tonight,I believe that if you had read all the comments L Schneiter,you would of read a piece from Myra stating that she doesnt work in the relevent Dept. although she works at DWP.she deals with Bereathments and benefits attached to that,She also gave web
sites and telephone numbers if you may wish to claim your WPA.She also asked that her name not be mentioned.Hopefully this web site is not widely read in England,because the way you wrote in reply to Adams comments,it would seem that Myra s future could be ruined by you and your silly games,and by the fact that you accuse someone of doing the exact thing you have done.
I think now is the time for you to stop your silly antics,and go and admire all the super things you put in your house to make it warmer.
Yes now i really am annoyed by you,and the way you have treated Myras request to remain in the backround.
Here here Alan - !!!! well said - lets hope this is the end of Schneitar's comments, no all, no nothing, but at least he'll be warm and cosy this winter -
I do so wish you would stick with the discussion, all these bits of abuse are rather crude attempts to distract - Troll! Please! try something original at least - if you all have to gang up and hurl insults then you have lost the argument.
I will repeat one last time - there is nothing inherently wrong in claiming benefits to which one is entitled and which one is in need of. However, there is something wrong in claiming something just because it's there - out of a sense of entitlement.
Now this really is the act of a trouble maker! Why should Myra's job be in jeopardy because we can't agree about peoples attitude to benefits!! Several of you have made quite strong and unsubstantiated allegations about the misuse of public money by the government as a justification for claiming fuel payments that are not needed in this temperate climate. The only person who has put Myra in evidence is you!
Fail to see why anyone in Spain be eligible for Winter Fuel payment
Has you would never get the climate
that you would get within the Country the Winter payment is for.
Grant shows how much you really don't know. Drive a hour away from la marina in to the mountains here I know a lot of ex pats live and the temperature falls to over minus - 5 plus they get snow. So yes Spain does get harsh winters too.
Frost all over the garden, two inches of ice on the fountain and water barrels. our fuel bill for gas central heating and wood burning stove for 2009/10 was 652 euros and for 2010 was 1103 euros ( Nov to April) heating not all day could not possibly afford it,Lots of huge shrubs killed off overnight with freezing weather.I have been far colder in our spanish house in winter than I ever was in UK.No we dont live in the mountains we live in a finca about 300 metres from the edge of San Fulgencio village.So why do people make statements without knowing the full facts.We do get mild winters but the houses are freezing cold.
I quite agree with you hazel, I am far colder in my house in Spain than I ever was in England during the winter. One thing I miss here is Gas Central heating. The longer you are in Spain the more you will find the cold. You become climatised to the warm weather and when it does get cold, it is cold indoors.