Paying for leads from services ads?

Since when do we have to pay for replies to our ads in the services section?


You have listed your business on "A Spanish Life" and we now have a new customer for you, who is interested in your services, simply visit your leads page for full client details and their requirements.

If you wish to speak with your new customer and do business with them then press the VIEW DETAILS button and pay the small fee, you will then be given all contact details of the client.

If you wish to speak with A Spanish Life about this service then email admin@aspanishlife.co.uk.

NB: An account on Bissime has been automatically created by A Spanish Life on your behalf. You can request to change your password via this link.

Commented Paul at BSAFE Alarms in La Marina 2012-12-10 22:29:18 UTC

In answer to the question, the system has been in place for about one week but its still being tested.

A Spanish Life is now one of the main social media sites in Spain and last month was used by over 115,000 people, so to advertise on its pages is one of the best ways of reaching your customers. FREE OF CHARGE

We will only be charging a few Euors per lead or give the option to get the lead free with a commission option or of course you do not have to do either and not respond to the customer.

Just think how much you can pay for a news paper advert and get nothing back, with A Spanish Life you get to see what the customer wants before you decide to spend any money.

We will also do extra marketing for you FREE of charge if you have an offer you would like to tell everyone about.

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-11 00:42:10 UTC

Yes Paul, it is a bit of a shock, but I suppose Steve is somewhat right in what he is saying.

I have made suggestions to Steve, and as he says, the system is being tested.

What worries me is that the persons who do contact you. Are they genuine? Are you really getting good value for money? and how about the people advertising their services/businesses on the wall for free. Shouldnt they be made to pay in the same way?

I would like to see some more views on this subject as I think it warants it.

Commented Malcolm X in La Marina 2012-12-11 23:24:29 UTC

As a service that is listed on this site, I must admit that I have found it very strange that I have never been asked to pay, even more so when I have got good business from it and have made thousands from the new customers that the site has given me.

So now I am being asked to pay a few euros or a commission for a new customer, BIG deal its called business and things cost money, but I am more than happy to give a little payback to a site that has made me money.

For those of you that think life is a free ride and that you should not pay, then my advise is you should not be in business as you have no idea

Commented Dave Long in Rojales 2012-12-12 01:41:33 UTC

As a charity advertising on this forum it has done great things for the charity. We have had house clearances, monetary donations and more things donated to the shop in general. We are a charity and things are donated for free but we have received many things because of this website.
Along with SATS who advertise on here I'm very surprised you do not have other local charities on here advertising. There is the odd occasion when charities are put under scrutiny on here and nasty stuff said but it does not come close to the amount of stuff Impact Charity has received from advertising on this site.

Commented IMPACT CHARITY in La Marina 2012-12-12 07:07:25 UTC

In response to your comment Dave, I for one am not suggesting that people shouldnt pay, in fact I too have a business listed but am worried that the leads I will have to pay for may 1. not be worth the bother as they may not be genuine, and 2. If I dont reply, I may and I say MAY loose business.

The property pages now will now cost genuine companies 10€ per lead. Thats 100€ for 10 leads (possibly weekly) and whos to say that anything will come of it. Remember, one is paying soley for leads and not for customers as you state.

For a small company, especially one that maybe gets commission from say 2 or 3 sales a year, kind of money if you were paying for say 10 leads a week, works out a lot of doe for possibilities and not direct contact.

Regarding your comment as to being happy to now pay a litle something for the privilege of advertising on a forum after having such a long time free of paying for it, I find a little hipicritical as you have obviously done very nicely out of it in the past as you say, making thousands, whereas there are a lot of people in this difficult time really strugling to make a buck these days.

I just wish that there was another way or more options that could be found to benifit everyone concerned in this delema.

Im all for Charities and the like being able to advertise for free as its pretty obvious this kind of business is completely different, but other things like bars advertising themselves, people selling their properties, people renting their properties etc, all advertising on the wall for free when others will have to now pay to get contact details, is that fair!? It certainly doesnt bode well with me.

Commented Malcolm X in La Marina 2012-12-12 11:12:32 UTC

In answer to some of the comments

I think that if any estate agent was getting 10 leads per week they would be selling more than a few properties per year.
I know the profits that can be made on a sale and how much other agents spend on advertising in the local press each month and get nothing back.

Charities are not charged for leads.

The idea is to let you read what the customer requires before you decide to pay, so you get a far better idea as to the value of the lead.

EXAMPLES of LEADS

Hello. Is this property available for long term rental and if so how mush is the monthly rental etc.

I am interested in purchasing a long sleeved pull over for a family member that plays bowls in Spain and the trouble I have been having is incredible.
Most sites will not send to Spain and if they do, it costs as much as 50£ which is insane!!
Preferably I would like a drakes pride one but am now open to suggestions...
A speedy response would be much appreciated as it is a Christmas present...

Hi got problems with my alarm system can you repair/service for me it is wireless and keeps going off when i am out i have changed all the batteries and will not operate with fob

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-12 13:23:30 UTC

I would be interested to know how you got on with the leads you have been sent Paul at BSAFE Alarms, were they any good?

Commented Daves Homes in Rojales 2012-12-12 13:36:26 UTC

With respect to Steves comments, "I think that if any estate agent was getting 10 leads per week they would be selling more than a few properties per year", Ive known astate agents get lots more than 10 leads a week and still ended up with nothing partly down to the contact just being nosey and partly down to going behind that agents back.

"I know the profits that can be made on a sale and how much other agents spend on advertising in the local press each month and get nothing back". Property prices have plumited in the last couple of years as have the commission rates and competition is fierce so to get 3% commission off a sale of say on average of 60,000€ after paying out for advertising and what ever else goes with it, doesnt leave a fat lot these days.

A lead is a lead and not a sale so to end up with many leads means nothing.

"Charities are not charged for leads".

"The idea is to let you read what the customer requires before you decide to pay, so you get a far better idea as to the value of the lead". Correct, but again with respect, this does not mean anything.

I didnt realise Paul had started to get leads, but I also would like to know how many he has received and how well he is doing now from them.

For my self, I have received two leads which I havent bothered to respond to as yet, as the messages attached to them I found to not quite hold enough value.

I would value other comments from other businesses advertising.

Commented Malcolm X in La Marina 2012-12-12 14:41:52 UTC

this was only the second lead we have ever had from this site, I cant contact that lead without paying with paypal, something I don't have or want, Bsafe pays a lot of money every month for advertising, One thing that got my goat with this is that all our contact info was removed from our listing, If for example a restaurant advertises on here will their address be removed from the listing? will they have to pay to give people their address?
The "lead" that I had in the last couple of days is hard to judge the value of as I can´t see all the message, and have no idea what part of the costa blanca it came from.

Commented Paul at BSAFE Alarms in La Marina 2012-12-12 19:37:19 UTC

It has been decide that bars and restaurants would not be asked to pay for leads as its hard to put a value on someone just asking for an address or opening times.

You do not need to have a paypal account and can use the system with any card.

You state that you pay a lot each month for advertising and that it got your goat that your contact details were removed from your advert on this site, may I ask you how much you paid for that advert?? The answer of course is NOTHING. It would be interesting to know how many leads you get from all the money you spend each month and the cost for each one, also do you get a refund if you get no leads or are not happy with what the customer wants?

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-12 19:54:49 UTC

Hi Steve
clearly there are pros amd cons to the new system. Of course I do accept that business relies on profit to succeed and that a return on any investment is par for the course.

Having been a member of the forum for a good while now my concern is the new system is wide open to abuse.

example: I accept you may not want to charge pubs/ restuarants for simply placing opening hours on the forum but often they advertise so much more than that ie special events theme nights special discounts etc all of which are advertising in the true sense of business. In fact any business just putting its name up is advertising.

Like wise if a member wants to comment on a great pub or entertainer, thats advertising as well

Im choosing restuarants simply as an example as there are many other businesses advertised on the site via the discussion forum.

My question is how will you differentiate and how will you satisfy those who feel they may have been unfairly treated as opposed to others.

I personally will not be affected by this new system but I beleive mine is a purposeful observation not least as I can see several pit falls ahead.

I am guessing that these pitfalls may form part of your testing strategy therefore, I predict a bumpy road for a time.

In principle I have no problem with the site earning money but in terms of people believing they are advertising a free listing in the services section, they're actually not. The new system is like advertising a shop that is closed.

Me personally, I would rather pay a small fee up front for the listing with my contact deatails visible to leads.

The new system as it stands including how it appears to have been brought about is really no more than a method of introducing hidden extras via the back door

Again as an observation the new system appears to have been introduced without announcement,openess or transparency and that has caused a stir, unsurprisingly.

I think it would be helpful to ask members in the meantime what they would like to see in terms of costing/payment and what they feel is fair and just.

They might not give you the answers you'd hoped for but you would at least get some feedback and a flavour of how better to manage the new changes.

Im not suggesting everything should remain free but people do prefer " up front information"

Kind regards

Debra

Commented we love it here in Quesada 2012-12-14 00:05:02 UTC

You have some very good points Debra, but most sites like this one do things this way, look at Facebook or Youtube they both started free but than charged the same can be said about Google and their adwords. This site is of course nothing compared to the ones listed put we all know them so make for good examples.

This site was built to help people in Spain and over the years many have benefited from it at no cost to them, it is only now when it has been decided to expand that this system has been added.

The cost of a lead is 3 euros and you get to read what the customer wants first

You can offer a payment in commission if a sale is made

Or you can pay for a banner and get all your leads for free.

I have been in marketing on and off line for over 30 years and know the value of a lead better than most and with the system that is now on offer its a good deal for any business.

The other option is to do nothing and pay nothing and get no new business.

How much does it cost to advertise in the local magazines that come out every month and are only read by the few people in the area that get one of them, how many do they print? I am sure its only a few thousand.
How many different languages do they print it in?

This site is used by over 100,000 people per month and is in every language you need. So that has to have a value more than the local press.

I will try to leave as much freedom on the site as before if someone wants to say they had a great time in a bar or the plumber is great then thats fine, we are not after every penny.

As a foot note all profits from this site goes to charity www.noborderline.co.uk
Where some charities run shops to raise funds and all that advertise on the site we support, I choose to do things my way.

At the end of the day its up to every business to decide.

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-14 00:19:11 UTC

These are states from Google to give people a good idea as to where they need to be investing there money to get new business.

"Job posts increased by 40% year-over-year in the sales and marketing category and demand for skills such as social media marketing (+157%),
marketing strategy (+136%) and lead generation (+136%) were all up
significantly in 2012."

So stop advertising in newspapers and go on-line like the rest of the world.

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-14 00:33:19 UTC

As a non business person,I see a possible flaw for businesses who advertise in this section,but are unwilling to pay for what was previously advertised as a free service.If these businesses leave there details on that section,the enquirer will not know why they havnt received a reply,and will surely come to the conclusion,that this business is ignoring them.So perhaps these businesses who are not willing to pay,would be better off withdrawing there notification from that section of Spanish Life

Commented Alan in La Marina 2012-12-14 08:18:37 UTC

Hi Alan
I hear what your saying but in all probability many current advertisers for a time at least, may not be aware of the new changes particularly if they do not use the site daily or even weekly.

I think it would be helpful for Steve to send an automated email to all users re the new changes, I think that would be most helpful for all involved so they could make an informed decision and be aware of the new format.

That way Steve can be sure everyone has the information they need and if nothing else that will free up his time from having to respond to individuals

best regards

Debra

Commented we love it here in Quesada 2012-12-14 13:02:07 UTC

Hi Steve
thank you for your comprehensive response.

In terms of social media I support you whole heartedly. As a social media marketer myself I am very familiar with the stats and the process.

That said and I reiterate, the principle of charging for advertising is not a problem but people tend to like to know what they are getting and what is expected of them as a customer from the get go, especially if this involves changes to the norm.

I wish you well in all you are doing and I like to think we can all learn lessons from time to time particularly when developing new services, I of course do include myself in that.

I sincerely hope you have accepted my comments with the good grace they were intended, that is, as a help, not a hinderance.

Best regards

Debra

PS as part of the natural human psyche ( nosey) I am DYING to know what constitutes the "misuse" of the site to which you referred when recently having to ban someone from the forum.

Are you at liberty at this stage as to at least reveal the "why" if your integrity prevents you from revealing the "who"?

Commented we love it here in Quesada 2012-12-14 13:17:07 UTC

Your comments have been very sound and I agree with a lot of what has been said.

We have already had the situation where a lead was sent to a local business and they said that they were not interested as they could not be sure that it was a good lead and 3 euros was too much to pay out.
This lead was passed onto another business in the area who made a sale of over 600 euros,

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-14 13:24:27 UTC

Which goes to prove there is no such thing "As a free lunch" even at Xmas, but the dinner that may well follow could be beneficial at some later stage

Commented 2nd Casa in La Marina 2012-12-15 12:58:20 UTC

Paul
Surprised to see you on here.

Commented Alan in La Marina 2012-12-16 13:29:18 UTC

Enjoy it while it lasts

Commented Alan in La Marina 2012-12-16 13:33:09 UTC

Hi Paul at Bsafe
forgive my ignorance but are you the guy that was banned from the site? If so may I ask why?

If not then do accept my apologies for misunderstanding the situation.

Kind regards

Debra

Commented we love it here in Quesada 2012-12-16 16:35:47 UTC

Where did all the other posts go?

Commented wiganjoiner in Quesada 2012-12-16 19:30:33 UTC

Well the new system is working well and good business is being reported, And the only person to complain is Paul from BSafe, maybe it's because he is not happy on missing out on a good order.

And just to confirm yes it is Paul that is now not being allowed to use the features of this site, I do not have a ban button as its never been needed before but anything he adds to the site will be taken off. This will sometimes take a bit of time as we have other things to do with our time, but I am sure he will get the message.
I am sure many would like to know the reason behind this, and I am sure it may seem very small compared to other things that have been said on this site.
BSafe decided to add to their service advert that if a client filled in the contact form they would not get the email, this of course was not correct, and just away of trying to be a cleaver. If they have money problems and can not invest in leads then I would have been happy to sort something out for them, we are a charity and are happy to help everyone that needs it.

Commented Team ASL "A Spanish Life" in La Marina 2012-12-17 01:05:39 UTC

Hi Impact Charity,
Your comment about other charities coming under scrutiny is quite interesting considering they are your members especially Andi, who after being given incorrect information, are the ones running other charities down, indeed they seem positively keen to do so. Personally I think Andi is being played and he cannot see it. Others are giving him misinformation knowing he will react whilst they sit back and claim innocence

Commented markmark722 in La Marina 2012-12-17 08:36:57 UTC

markmark722,
I think you have posted under the wrong comments.Thought i would point this out as you seem to be fairly new to this Forum,which is hard to follow at the best of times,but you posted with,what was on going battle between the owner of this site and a member that he had banned from using it,so consequenly the owner has taken off some comments made by the banned member,but left on comments made by non banned members,who had made comments regarding the banned members comments,and your comment about something entirely different,with everything else going on is making this forum almost impossible to follow.
I think i will go and lay down in a darkened room for half an hour

Commented Alan in La Marina 2012-12-17 10:00:05 UTC

Hi Steve
glad to hear things are going well with the new system however I am sorry to hear that Paul from Bsafe has been banned from the site.

I have no connection with Bsafe at all but you will remember I did say to you last week that I could forsee some bumps in the road ahead while the new model was being tested particularly as it wont be to everyones liking.

That said and given that you are at the end of the day a charity, I wondered if it might not be more helpful to identfy Bsafes position as one of those bumps in the road and find a way forward for both of you.

Of course you are at liberty to do what you like with your site however, as we are in the midst of the season of good will I personally would like to see you take a different stance on this one.

As i said earlier we all make mistakes, we all have misunderstandings and we all get caught up in the moment when our feathers are ruffled,

Steve why not embrace the mantra "charity begins at home" correspond with Bsafe and start over. Obviously its not all one sided but im sure you guys could work this out, thats provided you both want to so heres another mantra " It takes two to tango"

Good luck with it and a Merry Christmas to everybody on the forum

Kind regards

Debra

Commented we love it here in Quesada 2012-12-17 15:04:46 UTC

Business is going very well thanks Steve, no shortage of work for us so no real money worries.
Thank you for promoting our business and by your good work for bissi.me getting me an extra job this afternoon, For free!
Made me chuckle that did.
I am sure the people with listings on the la marina wall would like to know why bissi.me listings on their own site have contact telephone numbers on for said companies but you decided to delete them.
As all proceeds are going to charity who is paying the commission you are offering to anyone who gets firms to sign up for your "free"
Could you also tell me the name of the other forum you said we did business on I can´t seem to find it.

Commented Paul at BSAFE Alarms in La Marina 2012-12-17 22:27:53 UTC

Well Paul you seem to have shown your true colours, and think its good to steel from a charity. I know I for one will not be doing any business with you.

Commented Dave Long in Rojales 2012-12-17 23:51:58 UTC

Love to know how I did that

Commented Paul at BSAFE Alarms in La Marina 2012-12-17 23:55:38 UTC

It is very sad that a lot of people think that just because you care about other people or animals you must have a reason for doing it other than just being a good person, if you are happy to have gotten business without paying then you are the one that has to live with it, but I also would not use you, and will tell others the same.

Commented Papillon in La Marina 2012-12-18 00:11:08 UTC

If some one phones me on a phone number listed on a free listings web site what else can I do, do you think the other firms on there would turn down work? That customer could have got my phone number from anywhere, they just happened to find it on bissi.
Never seen your name on here Papillon.

Commented Paul at BSAFE Alarms in La Marina 2012-12-18 00:17:37 UTC

You go for it Paul you take all you can without thinking of others.

Commented Dave Long in Rojales 2012-12-18 00:31:53 UTC

tell me the name of the charity and I will drop of a donation, or I will meet anyone concerned and give it them in person.

Commented Paul at BSAFE Alarms in La Marina 2012-12-18 00:34:35 UTC

I am with you Paul, if you can get away without paying for something then why not, what difference does it make if its a charity, they are fair game. You got some free business today and can be pleased with yourself, this guy Steve is not as smart as you by the looks of it,
One thought that I have just had is that it looks like you do get business from this site and by what you have just said you have made money from it, but you will not pay the fee for the lead, and now you have pissed off the owner, is that good business do you think.

Commented Paula in Quesada 2012-12-18 00:51:10 UTC

That's great Peter you agree with this fool Paul that is now smiling from ear to ear because he has stollen a few euros from a charity. I would like to meet you both face to face and I am sure many others that work hard to help others would.

Commented Paula in Quesada 2012-12-18 01:00:45 UTC

Welcome back papillon,
As far as i can remember the last time you posted on here,was a few months ago,when you slated another local forum for not allowing links on that site from companies that would be in direct competition to companies that paid for adverts on that site,although this was clearly stated in the rules of that forum.
Now you are appearing to back the owner of this site for charging for previous adverts that were free on this forum.
The fact that the name papillon showed up as suspicious then,so it does to me now.
This arguement regarding the reasons for charging,is a good point,I cannot understand why all of a sudden it has turned to things like stealing from a charity,Yes, Steve the owner does say that all profits from this site go to his charity,but he rarely advertises that charity on this forum,which would get it to the forefront of peoples minds,but all of a sudden BSAFE alarms,although banned on this site is allowed on here again to suddenly start being attacked because he is not happy about paying for advertising where if any profit is made it goes to Steves charity,and yet again new names crop up on this site to condemn someone,on a point that has nothing to do with the original debate.
Lastly Steve has been recruiting people to work on the Spanish Life,and earn commission,I presume this is to get companies to pay for advertising on this site,Surely if these people are getting paid out of the extra revenue created by this venture,then the charity is getting less,so are these people stealing from charities,why does it only appear to be BSAFE that is doing that,mainly by people who rarely if ever have made any comments on this before.

Commented Alan in La Marina 2012-12-18 07:15:54 UTC

Well said Alan. Its amazing how the subject seems to change in time with nearly every thing that is posted on this forum. What is it with these sad people, havent they got anything else to do but sit in front of the computer and find fault with comments that people make.

Can we just stick to the facts of this thread and post something constructive like how to resolve this issue of paying for leads instead of slating people and trying to put certain people down?

Its good to see you back on here again Paul as you are obviously concerned about what this issue is all about and I for one are fully behind you. As Alan has stated, is it necessary for people who have nothing positive to say and only absolute nonsense comments, to turn this issue that still needs some further debate and additional thoughts on how things could work out in the best interest for all concerned, into a slanging match?

Commented Malcolm X in La Marina 2012-12-18 09:38:27 UTC

It seems like the person "Papillon" is back and is the same person that had used the same I.P. address as this this site to post and stir up things on another forum, looks like a repeat of things again maybe to keep people interested in this site thus making it easier to sell it some weird round about way.
I think that any most charities can do and can take out all running costs etc before any donations are handed over that making a very nice earner for certain people after all if you collect 100,000 Euro and and after salaries commissions running costs etc (who is to say these costs are wrong) there is only 1000 Euro left for the charity it is still a donation BUT AT WHAT TRUE COST some one can make a very very nice living /lifestyle from this.
Thus it seems this really is turning into a very or not so well run commercial venture as more things come to light

Commented 2nd Casa in La Marina 2012-12-18 12:38:24 UTC

Hi 2nd casa
It seems like we are on the same wavelength again.
Yes papillon does seem to be the same person whose ip address is the same as the owner of this site.
On saying this,I am not saying that the owner is papillon by another name,but i have to wonder wht all of a sudden the taking money from charities suddenlt appeared on this link.
I am not a suspicious person by nature,but sometimes ,things just dont look right,so to put a slant on this link,If advertisers have to pay to get the details of people trying to contact them,then that money first goes to Spanish Life,and if as is possible Spanish Life is not running at a profit,then any money collected by this means stays with spanish Life until it is in profit,then Steve charity starts to receive funds.
So to the people out there who have slated BSAFE for stealing money from charities,you have been so wrong,and hopefully this nasty vindictive manner that has been used by names on this forum to try to belittle Paul at BSAFE has failed,by the knowledge,that no charity has lost a cent as yet,and were unlikely to do so for some time

Commented Alan in La Marina 2012-12-18 13:20:22 UTC