I am being a bit nosey,but if any Bar Owners are reading this and they attended the meeting that was held by the Council yesterday,did it sort anything out,or has nothing changed.
ARE YOU ALL SWORN TO SECRECY,Or perhaps no one attended.
Alan
Perhaps its none of our business
Thanks weejohnten,at least that was a comment, however unhelpful it was.
Does seem rather strange would of thought that at least one of them would of told us the punters what goes on. After all it us that keeps them in business. Perhaps it is bad news and we are all going to have to find our entertainment elsewhere off the urbanisation?
Perhaps nobody went. Hope my local can tell me tonight. That is if they went. Thought Tommy would of updated us.
I did not go to the meeting, but from the information I have received, it went very well, and was very well attended, including a number of Spanish bars. The meeting was to highlight the requirements for an official opening licence, which most bars have got, and, the entertainment was discussed again. The last couple of weeks have gone quite well, and as long as everyone complies with the rules, there should not be any problem, but if anyone disregards and ignores the rules, the police will act accordingly. If I get any more information, I will pass it on.
Ok I was there! Quite a lot of people showed up but no where near all bar owners! They are saying, "get your stuff in order"..
Opening license, insurance etc... because if not, we will fine you! Fines can go up to 30,000 euro, but they really don't want to do that !?! The Police will be visiting, so have your paperwork ready was the message. If not, you will be denounced, however as Jeff pointed out, get it in order within 15 days, and denouncement will be withdrawn. All bars can have music between 8-midnight for the summer months, as long as they are reasonable about it. Must go to very low level after midnight.
Jeff also pointed out the is only 1 bar in La Marina that has a proper license, but never said which one. So bearing in mind the others don't have the right, they should be happy they are being allowed live music up to midnight! I got the impression there are a lot of bars, which have NO paperwork, and council are fed up with this. Bottom line, if you have applied (and can prove it)
there is nothing to worry about. Those that don't, start packing your suitcase! They did more than once, mention 30,000 euro, is the top fine for the worst offenders! I thought the meeting was very fair, even to the law dodgers
I am so pleased this Bar fiasco may at last be sorted out.
I have said more than enough on this subject, being that I am not near many bars and I am not allowed alcohol.
But (and I am not having a pop at anybody)I still cannot believe that the opening license fiasco, we are told was because Valencia received many Anonymous complaints about bars not having the correct licensesince when have Valencia or anybody acted on Anonymous information.Another point whilst trawling through Local Forums and blogs,I came across apiece written by a Councillor, who stated that all denouncias that the Council receive have to go to Valencia .My point being the Council issue the Licenses,so if they get a complaint, why don't they act before Valencia poke there nose in.I cannot see transparency in a Council that firstly accept Anonymous information (except in a few instances) and secondly over the past few years have told us that Valencia have received many denouncias against bars in La Marina Urb,when surely they knew before Valencia did,Mainly because they themselves sent the copy to Valencia. So come on you 17 Councillors,either be truthful and honest,if you expect trust and sincerity.I really only see people with some power,who are too scared to stand up and be counted.Sorry about my little rant.But all this trouble could of been stopped before it started,if our Councillors had balls.
What meeting was this? Where and when??? Obviously we were not there as we didn't know about it! Sorry!
No need to apologise,Cagneys,You didn't know about the meeting,because as usual the Council couldn't care if you were there or not.Otherwise they would of made sure that you were informed along with every other bar in La Marina,Either they told some and not others.Or they told none and kept their fingers crossed the jungle telegragh would work.,But just how long would it of taken to have dropped a letter into every bar,I guess a couple of hours at most.Possibly they were banking on not many turning up, so they blame you lot for being complacent.Unfortunately,I don't think this Council could run a p*** up in a brewery
What a lot of bullshit we are being fed. Tommy says most bars have an opening licence, Joe says one bar has an opening licence and Alan thinks the police go snooping on secret tip offs. If they are notified that a bar is operating without a licence it is a 5 min job to check wether a licence has been granted if not they proceed to the bar to make sure who they need to fine, are you really naive enough to think that they visit the bar to see if they have a licence. Out of interest does anyone know how many bars there are that come under the Town Hall?
No I do not think the police go snooping on secret tip offs .It was the Council who said that Valencia had sent in the National Police,I didn't not say the Denouncias were anonymous that was the Council,It was not me that said to Tommy I will help with the petition,and then didn't,but he forget to tell Tommy he wouldnt help,and the reason he gave Tommy later,that our petition had to get HALF A MILLION signatures and NIEs for anything to move forward,and only after the petition was handed,did this Councillor apoligise because he had been given bum information about the signatures.What I am and have been saying is the Council have not got the balls to say "sorry we were wrong" so they lay the blame on anybody gullible enough to believe what the Council say..
Sorry Cagneys I do tend to agree with Alan that every bar should have been served with a notice, however it was posted on here and caused the usual uproar and equaly it was on the council website/facebook page. It does not excuse the fact as Alan says there is no good reason why a leaflet was not dropped into every bar.
I wish you all the best and appreciate its one of the better run bars on the Urb here is the notice i copied and pasted here last week re speed limits and bars.
From Council Website surprised nobody put it on earlier or is it we don't deal in facts here and mostly fiction.
Speed Limits, National Autonomo Police, Limites de velocidad y Policía Autónomo
Show Details
Speed limits on Urbanisation Marina
It has been the case for many years that residential areas have a speed limit of 30km/h. This is according to law RD 339/1990 Ley de Tráfico & Seguridad Vial. There are many 30km/h signposts around the urbanisation. It was also recently authorised for the painting of the signs on the residential roads to make people more aware of the law.
National Autónomo Police
After receiving anonymous denuncias against the bars stating that there are many bars without legal paperwork, Valencia has ordered that the National Autónomo Police come onto the Urbanisation to investigate. This is a separate issue to that of live music. Last year there was a meeting with the bars. At this meeting the issue of opening licenses was raised and bar owners were asked to ensure that their paperwork was in order. Many failed to do so.
The inspections are happening NOW and will look at :
- Opening license (or proof that it is in progress);
- Insurance;
- Fire extinguishers (full and legally checked)
- Clear fire exits.
All paperwork must be kept on the premises.
We advise anyone who has been waiting for a long time to resolve any paperwork issues to put themselves in contact with the Technical Department of the Townhall.
There is a meeting on Monday the 10th of June at 11.30am in the Social Centre for ALL bar owners. Present will be the National Autónomo Police, the Chief of the Local Police, Mayor and Councillor for the Urbanisations.
We advise all bar owners to attend.
What I said was "only 1 bar has a music licence", and thats what Jeff quoted. BUT there are a lot (don't ask many?) that do not have an opening licence (or at least proof they applied!) The police dropped off official leaflets informing we should go and attend the meeting. The member of my staff was told to make sure the owner got it! It was also explained in the meeting that anonymous denounces do not count, but are filed. And this could be taken as somebody having a vendetta against a bar, if the denouncer do not have the balls (assuming its a male?) to say who they are? So all of this grassing up between bars, is not helping! Where is Gagneys bar? I have heard so much about it, but its not on Consum square...is it? Probably the Police don't know where you are, and maybe that is why you never got an official invite?
Well I hold my hands up and apologise, my fault as I've not been on the forum for a week or so, as with Facebook as its so busy. Normally these things get through to me via the jungle drums but obviously not this time. I'm sure that we are not the only bar to have noticed that we have an influx of holidaymakers on the urb! The place is buzzing, our rooms are virtually full for the whole of June and I've run out of food today! Guess Ive got a busy day cooking tomorrow! This is just what this urb needs , plenty of people who are sick of the English weather to come over and spend their hard earned pennies in our establishments to keep us all open. Long may it last through the summer!!!
Further to my last posting I would like to thank weeJohn and Joe for their postings and constructive comments. We were in fact visited by the police last week at Cagneys. (Behind the Deutsche bank on the main strip for those that don't know ). I was shown a piece of paper that resembled my opening licence and was asked if I had this piece of paper. I replied yes. Our bar name was then handwritten onto a printed sheet of bar names. The local said thank you and left. Probably maximum of 25 seconds in the bar at the most. There was no invite to the meeting last Monday which I would have attended had I known about it. Fortunately our fire extinguishers were serviced last month and our insurance paid in April, neither of which I was asked about. One gripe I do have, and this has nothing to do with the police, is why do insurance companies think you will automatically renew with them and rather than sending you a renewal notice they just whip the money from your bank account? Still no actual policy has been sent detailing what the bar is covered for. So the only proof I have for the police is the payment being taken from the bar account. Perhaps this is Spain's way of paper saving, not letting you know what you are covered for as its saving trees!!!! Sorry I'm being flippant now, been a long day. Anyone fancy a hard earned 1st G&T of the night with me after nearly 17hours of being on my feet and now waiting for Rick to get back from his second gig of the day at the Campasol Fiesta!!!! Look up the word exhaustion in the OED and it will show you a picture of Rick and Kate.
Kate as usual the cream comes to the top and I'm well pleased you are getting a turn and are busy, thoroughly deserved too, as for the insurance I cant speak for businesses but I assume its the same as car and house insurance you get the policy documents when you start initially and then the only thing after is the bank receipt unless you change company's then a whole new policy document will be sent.
Hope I'm correct and don't get shot down on here.
All the very best for a hectic summer.
weejohten,
I am sure you are correct,in fact the only way to beat the somewhat arrogance of insurance co.Is if possible pay in cash,that way they will have to ask you at renewal time.Or cancel your insurance each year ,two months before renewal date,as they invariably ask for two months notice,but make sure when you do cancel, you tell them it expires on the due date,then reinsure,and you will get all the options,they have on offer,and you wil get a new policy.I know this is a time consuming pain,but one day the insurance companies will treat you as a client and not as a cash cow
Lets hear some straight facts from the council about what they are doing to help the urb etc to stay on its feet no going round the casas JUST the facts also on what they HAVE not done and why then we can all make our minds up. I like to hear both sides like a lot of people then we can see the real HYPOCRITES we have on the urb shouting there mouths off
Just a note of warning to bar owners. It is in fact illegal to open a bar untill you have an opening licence in your hand it does what it says on the tin( a licence allowing you to open), so although it is often overlooked, if you start to get stoppy or awkward with the authorities or police they can close you down on the spot and fine you.
john,
Unfortunately,Your comment doesn't hold water with the Council.If you read the letter from the Council.that weejohnten has reprinted above,they disagree with you ,having to have an Opening License,they say you have to have one OR prove it is progress.They also add that if it has been outstanding for a long time the Bar should chase it up,with the technico Dept at the Town Hall.On reading this,I somehow think,that it is not all the fault of Bars,but some fault may lay at the door of the Technico Dept,for perhaps dragging there heels.
I am just beginning to believe that the Mayor and his Councillors,do want to settle this amicably,although a lot of people involved have gone a silly way to do it.I think this debate has had its day,and if we leave it alone,things will sort themselves out to a level agreeable to most people
Thats what the town hall and two solicitors told me, but when I got into a heated discussion with the police they quoted the law stating that they normally ignore people jumping the gun but they were going to make an example of me. I am still awaiting my fine from Valencia. What you are saying is much like Catral town hall telling all new house buyers that there would not be any problems and then 1150 of them having demolition orders even though only about 200 were ever served. Do you trust everything the town hall says? All I am saying is cover your own arse.
A notification was left on our bar the night before so we never saw who left it there, Philippe and Francine the owners ( French restaurant in the grey area) went the following day altough it was more to do with bars, apparently the meeting went well. I am surprised no one bothered to let you know Kate, next time I´ll keep you posted :)
I have been waiting over 5 years for the actual paperwork. But it was applied and I have the paperwork to prove it. The police did visit me about 6 months ago, looked at the paperwork, laughed and said "as long as you have applied and can prove it, its as good as having it". Police cannot push the town hall. People that apply now for a license, get it within a few months, to make it look like they are quick. They cannot get through the backlog! If you have done nothing, and cannot prove you applied (you get a stamped paperwork saying its in hand) then you can worry! Unfortunately with all the stuff town hall wants its not cheap. We had to get a "noise pollution test" (1000 euro alone!) and we do not have or want live music! We have quiet background music! That is the new town hall bosses idea! Don't matter if you pass or fail, you have to have it, they would not accept we will not have live music, as an excuse!
