To whom it might concern.

I've got a Spanish niece does that make me of Spanish decent. ( joke). The thing is 'skywalker' unless you got millions in your bank account and want to run for mayor everyone complaining about bars or too the local council will do nothing. Go through the right channels. Like in the UK if you want the goverment to debate on a situation and you can gather 100.000 signatures on a petition then by law the problem that arose has to be debated and discussed. Now there has to be a way that if a petition was started regarding bars and you reached a extravagant number (which 50 odd people don't count I'm talking thousands) then you have no hope. You said it your self. Everyone's trying to come to a compromise for last 5-6 years, well that's not going to work or it has my worked has it.
As for finding the local drug dealer I think you will find in all european countries that if you are found o have a small amount of herbs on you, nothing is said about it. I don't smoke I don't drink but life is life and I think there's dry of people out there that
Could do with some wacky backy right now especially with all this crap going on.

We need a compromise, however it's not that simple.
Ask yourself what time you go to bed, if you are a bar owner I guess you think 1.30 am or later if allowed is OK as your first priority is makeing money.
If you are the resident then I guess you need to be in bed by midnight, especially if you have a job to go to, or children who need to get up for school.
If my next door neighbour kept me awake untill 1am every morning, then I would be taking some serious ACTION.
As Jeff stated a while back, noisey niegbours should be dealt with

"Do not be afraid to call the local police on matters regarding excessive noise from neighbours. If it continues, denounce them to the Guardia Civil.
If you are not sure of your rights, you can call into our office for more info"



I guess ay the end of the day it boils down to the simple fact that the bars are in the wrong place, basically being too near to peoples homes.

Hi Skywalker,I have been reading your comments with interest,but I think you are beginning to forget exactly what is said on this forum and what you think was said.
Firstly your belief that Kurt may be German or Icelandic is really a pure guess because the name may sound German or Icelandic,Using the same method does that make you an Angel.
I have quickly browsed through previous comments and cannot find any one who said swearing and taking drugs,is O.K.in bars infront of children or families who do not wish to hear it or watch it.If i had read that on this forum i would of backed you up,so if you can tell me who or when this appeared,I would be more than interested,as for this being the reason for bars being empty,I think part of the reason is cash and part people dont like to sit for hours in bars with absolutely nothing going on.
I would like to think that you do or did go for a drink.in bars,but the police came around at midnight to get people inside and close doors.If you had read this forum last year almost everybody said they would be happy with an 11.30pm or midnight for music and entertainment to stop,the complaint last year was because bars were being told by police to quieten down or stop at 10pm and after,
Meetings did take place with police, bar tenants and council.all that came out of it was that bars could stay open until 2.30am in the summer period instead of the current 1.30am,all the bar tenants had to do was to apply to the council,it would normally be granted and would not cost anything.

Alan
Has a post been removed. I have also looked for the post about taking drugs etc, IT WAS on here, however unable to find in now......not that I am after any drugs.
I did not know there was a meeting with the Council , Residents and Bar owners last year, so if the residents did not speek up at the meeting, then sorry, but it's their own fault, let the noise continue.
Just keep the noise and the language down when staggering past my house in the early hours

Golfer
Agree with what you say,As I pointed out last year the vast majority of people seemed to say that Midnight was late enough for loud music,and the restaurants and bars seem to keep to around that time,Unfortunately you really cant blame the owners of these places,for the rowdy foul mouthed hooligans,who appear to relish annoying ordinary folk,but this doesnt occur only on La Marina,but just about everywhere.We get back to the same old answer that if these hooligans are youngsters,why dont there Parents control them and if they are grown men and Women why dont the Police control them.I really cant understand why it seems to fall on the restaurant and Bar owners.,who surely are only in charge of these so called human beings whilst on there premises.After all they know that if foul language or drugs are used on the premises,it is in there interest to get rid of the people using either,or else it will empty the Bar or restaurant,of decent people and of course cripple the profits that they normally work very hard for.
That is my thoughts for today.

Hi Golfer

Can you let me know where your office is as I would like to take you up on your offer of some advise.

"Do not be afraid to call the local police on matters regarding excessive noise from neighbours. If it continues, denounce them to the Guardia Civil.
If you are not sure of your rights, you can call into our office for more info"

Sorry Tina
Did I offer advice?
Sorry no office, however can be found at El Plantio

Tina

I think Golfer was quoting what "Jeff " said to do, And that was go to HIS office and sort thing,s out.

This thread has been going on long enough!
You have made this forum boring, and turned into a place for "slagging" anyone who doesn't agree with you! For heavens sake.......agree to differ, drop the topic and move ON ,!!

Sorry Maz
Guess it will remain a topic of concern untill the issue with the late opening, noise, etc etc is resolved.
It has been pointed out to me that I made a false statement, when I posted "meeting with the Council , Residents and Bar owners last year" Hard to believe, but apparantly the residents were NOT invited to the meeting, Bar owners and council only !!! NICE, no wonder they are up in arms.

Golfer
I will try to clarify what happened last year,which may or may not be the reason the residents were not in at the meetings.
A local resident complained to the police that a certain bar,was too noisy for him,At 10.15pm the police arrived at the bar and using their decibel counter checked the volume of noise emitting outside of the bar,it registered less than the maximum permissable,so they went to the resident and explained the situation and asked if he wanted to withdraw hes complaint,He refused to withdraw the complaint so the police went back to the bar and ORDERED the music to be turned down or off,although they were not breaking any rules or bye laws.Some bar owners requested a meeting to thrash out exactly what they could or couldnt do.not forgetting this was at 10.15pm,in fact about the time a lot of people actually go out for a pleasant evening.

Alan.
Any idea what the dBA level was at the 10.15 complaint?

Remember 45 dBA is the Law
737 landing is circa 90 dBA

Hi Golfer,
The figure given to me via Spanish Life of the max.decibels outside of a public place is 90 decibels.
This figure was from our local councillor for the urbs. and not my guess work.
How far away is the decibel counter when a 737 lands?and do you know how noisy it is on take off?
Just thinking that all planes are breaking the law if as you say a 737 lands at twice the decibels allowable

Hi Alan
Sorry no idea how lowd a plane is on take off.
Info on landing was found when Googleing 90dBA
Also worth a look
http://airportnoiselaw.org/dblevels.html

Maybe the bar owners shouls be forced to have limiters installed, then if they or their customers make too mush noise the electric supply to the offending bar is cut off for 8 hours. This way the bars would not be classed as neighbours from hell.
Billboy has posted a very disturbing post on the Posts From All Area's.
I guess this problem needs to be sorted out once and for all. Maybe it does need the Alicante Licence Dept to apply the laws, no licence, no music unless soundproofed. Another thought, maybe the problem has become more of a problem with the Smoking ban, as people who want to smoke have to sit outside, thus creating noise for the poor devil who lives across the street. ~Plus there is now more and more bars on the consum area as shops etc are turned into bars,
As for last night, well sorry, I have to admitt it, I could hear the row fron the Consum area ans I live a couple of streets away, so it must not been very bad for the local residents who live next door to the bars.

So even I had to close my doors and windows and venture inside, instead of the bars closing their windows and doors and keeping the noise they generate inside.

Hi Golfer.I have just glanced through both of the links you mentioned,It is weird how things are put that make you rethink your ideas.One of them showed a hospital in the daytime the average level is over 45decibels,another shows that traffis noise on a main road at 25 feet is 65 decibels,both of these above what you believe to be the maximum level.A lorry with its engine running is up to 90 decibels.Also found that 90 decibel noise will permanently damage your hearing if subjected for more than 8 hrs continuously.Seems that mostly these are recommendations and not laws.
All said and done,i live on a quiet part of the urb.but I believe because of the rolling hills the urb is built on,that in some places it causes an instant echo,which makes it sound noisy due to the sound reverberating,perhaps that is why Linda who lives near the consume area does not get bothered by the noise but someone on the other side of the area does.Where i live people can walk past my place at about 100 metres and i can hear what they are saying on their mobiles,
If around the consume area I doubt I would hear this conversation even at 20 metres,due to ambient noise.
With regard to this,if you are walking past my place dont say anything you want kept secret because I can hear you (thought i would end on a funny note)

no one seems to mention dogs barking at 2 in the morning( or crapping everywhere for that sake) it because of people that complain like some of u that this Urb is now gone down hill, and all the businesses are suffering because of it. for gods sake this is NOT retirement village so deal with it. if u don't like the bars noise then move somewhere else.
EDITED BY ADMIN, PLEASE PHIL DO NOT USE BAD LANGUAGE ON THE SITE ....
sorry admin

Hi Phil,
Hope it wasnt me,you were talking about,I have been on this forum several times making the point about the dogs crap everywhere,I have even asked out councillor for the urbs on a couple of occasions how many owners have been fined,but as usual he remains silent about it,except to say you should report your neighbours to the police if you see their dogs muck not being picked up.
Have also noticed the green areas not being kept anywhere near as nice as they were,so the dog owners are again letting there dogs run all over them and doing there business,despite the no perros allowed signs.I am also clearly in favour of pubs being allowed some freedom.Perhaps you could take some time to visit our councillor and put your views to him,I used to,until he said certain things to me which he later denied and called me a blatent liar to cover his own incompetence at the time,so I am down to asking him questions on this forum,so at least peoplec will gather that i tell the truth as i see it,Unfortunately although he answers a few questions they are never mine

Jeff seems to have gone very quite on the forum over the last week, and not giving us much feed back over local matters. Could this have anything to do with Carol and Ian not being site admin as I have been told it was him that told them they could get into trouble if people were to put things on the site.

I think we will all find Jeff dome not come on here cause the forum is getting out of hand.
I've had a look on other forums, wall to do with Spanish life and it is only La Marina that acts like this. Going crazy at bars/resturants/charities.
I found a article on a official holiday website and a reporter who done a write up on la marina urb.
The words such as.. Prehistoric, a dive. Many more words. It seemed the reporter took the time to come over here scout the bars and urb. The entire write up was a shot in the head. To be honest the report was pretty accurate.
Then we all wonder why no one wants to visit la marina. As a line of the repeat says. It's not a holiday/resort town. It's a town with ex-pats and and people who have retirement homes.

While all you moaners are up here grumbling away, just remember life is passing you by. This IS life its not a rehearsal, so go get one.

I disagree with you 100% about this forum, we are all adults and have a right to our say, the same as we would in any public gathering. Yes it does get a bit heated at times but that is life. I have never seen someone get out of hand here.
If when I am in a bar having a disagreement with people there is no admin there to delete me, so there should not be on the internet.
This is the only forum that lets people be people and not controlled as to what they can and can not say by the fews of the admin.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

Just a quick comment.
Firstly Andi,the reason you do not get comments like ours on the other spanish life sights is surely easy to see,hardly anybody puts comments on them.and as for jeff thinking it may be out of control,why doesnt he use his blog site,he has only made three comments on it this year,and he has complete control on that,the public cannot reply.I think you will find his comments practically stopped months ago.before the lively debates had barely started,
Personally I thought blogs were to tell people what is happening,after all he told us why places become ghettos on it.

Alan I agree with you in some way. My question is to everyone who has posted regarding this comment. If it is bothering you do much noise, people or lack of and just what everyone is complaining about. If it is so bad here why don't you move back to where you all come from. Surely that would be best for you surely you won't hear mouthy kids or loud music or see drunk people in cars. No matter where you go it will be the same every where, unless you live in fields. It's called life and by now we should all realise the noise is not going to stop its not going to be controlled its been going on since I've been around in Spain since 1997. 15 years later its the same. So good luck on your quest.

Well it looks like Jeff has given up on this problem and is not even offering advise as to what is to be done, I voted people like him into power so that these sort of things would be sorted out, I know where I will be voting next time.